"Are you surprised?" Three Black women react to the election

One of the winning "I voted" stickers in Michigan's 2024 "I voted" sticker contest.

Katelyn Stouffer-Hopkins / Michigan Dept of State

What's surprising about Trump returning to the White House? For Brittany Luse, Pop Culture Happy Hour's Aisha Harris, and NPR's Alana Wise there isn't much to be surprised about. Three Black women and journalists mull over how this moment is business as usual from where they sit.

Then, Brittany puts the spotlight on a word that's been in the shadows in this election cycle: feminism. Vox's Constance Grady and Paper Magazine's Joan Summers join the show to discuss the state of feminism in American politics.

Transcript

BRITTANY LUSE, HOST:

Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luse, and you're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

LUSE: Well, Alana, Aisha, I'm just going to come out and ask it. Are either of you surprised by the election result that former President Donald Trump has been reelected?

AISHA HARRIS, BYLINE: I mean, I'm sure you both remember right after the 2016 election, the "SNL" sketch with Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle.

LUSE: Yes, yes.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) And Donald Trump has been elected president of the United States.

DAVE CHAPPELLE: Yeah, you guys were right. It's a historic night. Don't worry about it. Eight years are going to fly by.

CHRIS ROCK: Yeah, don't worry. It's going to be all white.

HARRIS: And they're the only ones in the room of white people, non-Black people who are just like, yep, wasn't surprised. That was me in 2016. I wasn't surprised then. I wasn't surprised now.

LUSE: The day after the election, I sat down with NPR's Aisha Harris and Alana Wise.

HARRIS: Hey, Brittany.

ALANA WISE, BYLINE: Cool.

LUSE: Aisha covers culture, and Alana covers race and identity. And I wanted to have them on because, sure, none of us knew Donald Trump would win again, but I was seeing a lot of folks expressing this shock or surprise that this had happened. And I was like, huh (ph)? As three Black journalists, we're certainly not here to say we saw this coming. But as Black women, from everything we've learned about how to navigate this country, surprising wasn't a word we could relate to.

WISE: Yeah. It was interesting. But surprised - that's just a hard word to lock in on.

LUSE: Yeah, I have to say I also am not surprised. I mean, for one, we've been here before, you know, in 2016, when Trump was also elected president. This is long before I was ever working at NPR. But I remember going into the office the next day and seeing a senior manager in tears because he was so bewildered that this person who previously had primarily been known for being, like, a reality TV star, had suddenly, you know, taken control of the presidency. All day, all week, honestly, I had coworkers who were asking me if I was surprised or why I wasn't surprised at the outcome.

And, you know, I mean, I'm not surprised now. I wasn't surprised then because the kind of rhetoric that Trump used in his campaign in both 2016 and 2024 and 2020, but he didn't win then. But, you know, the kind of rhetoric he used - social conservatism, law and order, traditionalism - is rhetoric that has historically worked with a big swath of American voters. Are you more or less surprised by this moment now than you were in 2016? Like, do you think this time, perhaps for lack of a better term, hits different?

HARRIS: You know, it does feel a little bit different because we have been there before. And we do know the way this administration has run in the past and how they've outlined their plan for how he's going to run now. And we can't just feign, like, oh, he's not actually going to do that, which I think was a common sentiment in 2016. Like, oh, he's saying all this stuff, but, like, he's not actually going to do that. We know that he will be empowered to do that, especially in the wake of Jan. 6.

LUSE: Right, right, right, right, which, I have to say - that day did kind of catch me off guard. January 6 did kind of catch me off guard.

HARRIS: Yes, yes.

LUSE: That one got me.

WISE: Yeah. I mean, well, one thing I think that we have to correct each other on. You keep calling him a reality TV star, forgetting his starring role in "Home Alone 2." I just want to point out.

(LAUGHTER)

LUSE: A Christmas movie at that. I'm all out of my season. I got to get it together. You're right.

HARRIS: I know. I know (laughter).

LUSE: You know, to get back to our perspectives in this moment, you know, we're all Black women, in case y'all didn't know.

(LAUGHTER)

LUSE: Just to fact-check that we're all Black women. And I'm curious. How do you think our positions in society prepare us to look at this moment, you know, both as Black women navigating the world, but also the same time as Black journalists covering a volatile political landscape?

WISE: So one thing that I think has really sort of shaped the way that I look at things today. My first big girl job was covering the campaign in 2016. So my first assignment out of the office was actually seeing Donald Trump come down the escalator, and Mexicans are rapists and criminals and, you know, send them back, whatever the case may be.

LUSE: Oh, wow.

WISE: So I spent a lot of time in these rooms in these crowds, and I think that being exposed to something that was so palpable in a way that I had never seen before. I had never been around that many frankly angry people, very angry people, and people who were sort of angry at every aspect of me, right? A lot of times these are people who had very strong grievances against journalists. A lot of times, these are people who had very strong grievances against Black people. And a lot of times, these are people who had very strong grievances against women, especially as the candidate he was running against, in both instances, were women, right? Hillary Clinton in 2016, and now Kamala Harris here in 2024.

And so I think understanding that no part of your identity is one that is going to naturally gel with a significant portion of the people to whom he is most lovable, most approvable. It sort of numbs you to the surprise, and that gets back to what we were talking about earlier in that, yes, this moment might be shocking. But if you have certain lived experiences, I think that you understand that there are many people who are simply unwilling to elevate to a position of such power someone who looks like Kamala Harris.

LUSE: Yeah. I mean, it's worth noting that based on the latest exit polls, Black women overwhelmingly supported Kamala Harris, but there was a small minority that did vote for Trump. So obviously, as we all know, no group is a monolith.

HARRIS: Yeah, I mean, look. I remember talking to my grandmother, who's now in her early 90s, a few years ago and asking her, like, how do you feel about this? You have lived through MLK assassination, the Black Panther movement. You've lived through ups and downs. She's from rural Mississippi, like, born in the early 1930s. She has seen this world change and both progress and regress. And she was just like, things are getting worse. And when you have someone who feels as though things are getting worse, that kind of put it into context for me of, like, this is kind of how it goes. And when you look at how, especially post-2020, there were black squares, there were white people reaching out and saying, like - how are you doing? - after George Floyd, like, texting you...

LUSE: Asking to buy me a coffee, like, through Venmo or something.

HARRIS: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: And it's like, OK, this is a bit much. And, you know, I just kind of knew, eventually, this is all going to dissipate, and we've seen it dissipate. We've seen DEI programs get slashed in the last few years. We've seen interest in corporations in these sort of initiatives that sprung up especially after George Floyd just kind of, like, go by the wayside.

LUSE: Yeah. You know, my mom was born before the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965, so she wasn't necessarily born with a guaranteed right to vote. And there are things that she saw and heard, you know, in the '50s, '60s, '70s and beyond that she thought she would never hear or see again, you know, certain types of outright racism and, you know, bigotry. Frankly, there are things within my own short adult lifetime that I did not think we would be discussing again. There are things that were litigated and relitigated long before I was born that now are back on the table. And that is quite a lot to process.

But also, I mean, at the very same time, from, like, an early age, growing up in a very white suburb in (laughter) the middle of America, right outside of Detroit in Michigan - I remember being a kid and being in elementary school and, you know, them talking about racism and bigotry as if these were things that, like, were dead, buried and completely in the past. But I knew from the things that some of my classmates were saying and doing to me that that wasn't true. I remember them calling our area very diverse - the diversity here is amazing. And according to (laughter), like, census data, my town was less than 10% Black.

WISE: You were the diversity.

(LAUGHTER)

LUSE: Exactly, exactly. So, you know, as a result, when someone looks in your face, even as a child, and tells you something that you patently know is just completely untrue, but you realize that socially you are supposed to act as if this is an acceptable way to interpret reality, it gave me a good foundation of critical thinking skills...

HARRIS: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

LUSE: ...That I feel like...

HARRIS: There we go.

LUSE: That I feel like I can apply in this moment. I feel like my position as a Black woman gave me a lot of critical thinking skills. At what cost? Who can say?

(LAUGHTER)

WISE: To what end?

(LAUGHTER)

LUSE: To what end? Alana, you cover race and politics. Aisha, you follow trends and culture. From your vantage points, were there moments along the way that hinted at this moment? Like, Aisha, I would love to start with you. Were there cultural moments you look back on as bellwethers to this point?

HARRIS: Yeah, I mean, it's hard for me to point to one specific cultural moment. But I do think that the rise of sort of the podcaster who's not really a journalist, but is nonetheless interviewing very important people who have the ability to shape and mold our democracy, and our entire livelihoods, is something that really showed me that, like, oh, things are kind of turning in a way that feel as though Trump has a very good chance of winning. Joe Rogan in particular is someone who I think of who has such a massive audience and tends to have guests on who are very right-wing, conservative extremists, including people like Alex Jones. We see a lot of that. And I think that he - there's no way to know for sure how many people he influenced, but I don't think we can discount that influence.

LUSE: I saw an image going around social media. Someone screenshotted, I think in late September, the top four podcasts on Spotify in the United States. No. 1 was Joe Rogan. No. 2 was Tucker Carlson. No. 3 was Candace Owens' podcast. And No. 4, (laughter) our dark horse, Ms. Talk Tuah. So...

(LAUGHTER)

LUSE: You know, that speaks to your point - absolutely - that these are some of the most popular voices we have in culture right now. You know, I've also been thinking about music. I think back to country music and its rise over the past year. We talked many times on this show about the genre's connection to conservative politics. And over the past year, we've watched figures like Morgan Wallen dominate the albums and singles chart. He was criticized a few years ago for using the N-word. Now he's one of the biggest musicians out right now.

It's important to note that that is actually a uniquely American phenomenon, meaning he's not as popular outside of the United States. So that's something to think about. I don't know. His popularity and the popularity of country music over the past year - it does feel something like a harbinger, to me, following the election.

HARRIS: Culture is still very much like a place where the - you know, they're called culture wars. That's where the culture wars play out. And I even think of Jason Aldean "Try That In A Small Town"...

LUSE: Oh, yeah.

HARRIS: ...Using all of the conservative talking points about the left to bring up this, like, anger at the left, and the fact that people were just downloading that song and trying to get it to No. 1 as, like, an act of, quote-unquote, "resistance." And so seeing things like that play out in culture really sort of emphasized how polarized the United States has become around everything - not just politics, but also politics that bleeds directly into pop culture and music, especially.

LUSE: I got one last question for y'all. Do you think Trump is the chicken or the egg here?

WISE: Ooh.

LUSE: Is the culture at large shifting towards more conservatism? Or do you think Trump's influence is pushing the culture to be more conservative?

WISE: Ooh (laughter). That's a really good question.

HARRIS: Yeah.

WISE: I do think that, in a lot of ways, Trump did embolden a lot of people to more openly voice ideas that might have been controversial in the past. But I do also think that he has influenced people to believe a lot of things that they previously would not have thought or believed. I spent a lot of time on Reddit, for example, and there are all these reports of people sort of losing their families - they perceive themselves to be losing their families to conspiracy theories and increasingly extremist views that were first mainstreamed by Trump and now have been taken to the extreme on further corners. So I guess I think he's the chicken. I guess I think he sort of bears a responsibility for morphing how conservatism is now interpreted.

HARRIS: I think it's both, right? I think he's both moved conservative but also has now brought others to be more conservative and also feel as though they can say things without repercussion because of the fact that he has been able to say so many things without repercussions.

LUSE: Like, he's moved - it sounds like both of you are getting at the idea that Trump's - not just his politics, but his very...

HARRIS: Essence.

LUSE: Essence.

HARRIS: Being (laughter).

LUSE: And style of delivery has kind of moved the Overton window of all of American culture, basically, over towards the right in a way that, I guess, we see blooming throughout our culture and politics. And I suppose we'll see it continue over the next four years.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

LUSE: Aisha, Alana, thank you both so much for coming on and having this conversation with me today. You're both so smart, and I learned so much. Thank you.

WISE: Of course. Thank you.

HARRIS: Thanks, Brittany.

LUSE: That was NPR's Aisha Harris, co-host of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, and NPR's Alana Wise. She covers race and identity for NPR. Coming up, here's a word you might have been hearing a little less lately - feminism. The word has mysteriously disappeared on the political left, and it's been weaponized by the political right. So my question is, is feminism in its flop era? The answer after a quick break.

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LUSE: As the dust settles from the presidential election, with lots of folks pulling apart the datasets to explain how Donald Trump regained the presidency, I'm going to step back not to ask how this happened, but how we got here to connect those dots. Today I'm joined by Vox's Constance Grady and Paper magazine's Joan Summers. Constance, Joan, welcome to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE.

JOAN SUMMERS: Hi, Brittany.

CONSTANCE GRADY: Thanks so much for having us.

LUSE: Yes. Well, whew, y'all. After this week and, I think, the entire rah-rah, all of the stress leading up to it, I'm in need of a little comfort. I feel like every election season, I think, rattles just about everybody. Now, this week, I have not been leaning on bourbon but lentils. OK? That has become a new comfort food. I'm a fiber girlie. I'm into it. My husband made a lentil soup this week, and I've just been going to town. But I want to know what is getting both of you through this week?

SUMMERS: Oh, I have been doing a old vintage "Real Housewives Of New York" rewatch. And I got to say, going back to the Obama years, that first term, the world was a different place. The country felt different. The women were acting different. It was just a different television landscape, and there's frankly nothing like it. There's nothing like it.

LUSE: What about you, Constance? What has been giving you some comfort this week?

GRADY: First is I super find Jane Austen very comforting because she's such a controlled writer that you walk into her world, and you're like, yes, I know how much money everyone makes, and I know that every sentence is going to be perfect. Let's do this. And the other thing is watching long YouTube videos about finding your personal style.

LUSE: I definitely understand you on the comfort YouTube. Now, I don't think it's an overstatement to say that this has been a unique election season. But for many, there was a feeling of deja vu, having a woman running against Donald Trump. It all felt very 2016, the year that Hillary Clinton lost. But this time around, the Democratic Party took a different tactic. Throughout this election season, there was a very clear omission of the word feminist. In fact, Kamala Harris rarely leaned into her own womanhood as a political tactic, which is in stark contrast to Clinton's run. So I have Constance and Joan here to help me answer the question, is the word feminist in its flop era?

Constance, I want to start with this article that you wrote. According to your article, many feminist policies on the ballot, like reproductive rights and child care reform, are popular with Americans. But what shifted in our culture to where calling yourself a feminist was seen as a bad move?

GRADY: So I feel like there are three main factors that I see leading into this cultural shift. First of all, we have the long hangover of the 2016, 2020 Democratic primaries, when a few supporters of Bernie Sanders made the argument that women who supported Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren created a narrative that suggests that prioritizing picking a woman over picking a more economically progressive candidate is intellectually unserious. I think at the same time that we're seeing feminism on the left presented as kind of too centrist and too unserious.

LUSE: Right. Basically, people on the far left - I'm thinking about the proverbial Bernie Bros - saying that voting for a woman on the basis that she's a woman was silly and belittling that choice.

GRADY: Yes. I think we're also seeing it presented on the right as too aggressive and radical. And one of the ways that plays out is concerns over the politics of young Gen Z men and the Gen Z political gender gap. There is this narrative that the reason Gen Z men are not turning left with their female peers is that they were alienated by the intensity of the #MeToo movement and of feminism over the past 10 years or so.

LUSE: Interesting.

GRADY: I think though that what's amplifying both of these narratives is that over the past 10 years, we've really saw feminism as a concept get commodified and turned into kind of a pop cultural brand. There were a lot of brands that tried to make the claim that buying from them was a feminist act, like Thinx. And I think when a political movement is treated as a buzzword or a trend or a commodity, then it does become vulnerable to the movements of a capitalist marketplace. It can become overhyped and oversaturated.

LUSE: Yeah, you could reach market saturation, and then the consumer gets sick of it.

GRADY: Exactly. And I think we're kind of seeing that having happened with feminism. People seem to be tired of the idea of it as a brand.

LUSE: OK. So thinking about feminism as a brand, Joan, you have seen a lot of these things develop and unfold from a different angle. You were a writer for the feminist website Jezebel back in 2019. You even wrote an essay about taking down empowerment feminism. I wonder, if not empowerment feminism, what phase of feminism do you think we're in right now?

SUMMERS: Yeah, I want to make it clear when we talk about empowerment feminism, we are talking about the era of sort of the late 2010 feminist movement that sort of got, like Constance said, co-opted by brands but also absorbed into larger Democratic institutions. We saw the pantsuits and that sort of thing.

LUSE: Yeah, and the brunches.

SUMMERS: Yeah. You know, a woman should lead this company. A woman should be president - these sort of things that, you know, aren't just about empowering the everyday woman but about empowering the individual and, you know, aspiring to almost dominate others in your position of power, whether that's at the head of a company or in your community.

And I think that with the stage of feminism that we are in now, that feminism, that style of talking and organizing politically around people like Hillary Clinton, unfortunately, spectacularly failed. And in reaction to that, in reaction to feeling like this empowerment we were building was taken away from us or stripped, a lot of these larger Democratic or liberal institutions that organize women, even larger activist groups, as well, have resorted to what I call fear feminism, where we must do this or else. It is a feminism based on a scarcity of options I think a lot of women feel they have in this country, but it is also a feminism, I think, that is born out of a very individualistic desire.

You know, I think that we talk a lot about men feeling like they were owed things, and then those things were taken away. But I think if we are looking at polling data from the most recent election and if we look at polling data from 2016, a significant portion of white women in this country voted for Donald Trump both times. And I think that there is also a large group of women in this country that also feel like something has been taken away from them and also feel like they have lost out on an opportunity or lost out on something.

LUSE: You know, in terms of feminism souring, I also want to bring up how white women have been spoken to in this election season. There were two secret voting ads put out in the past few weeks, one geared towards wives and the other geared towards men. For wives, the ad starts with in the one place in America, where women...

(SOUNDBITE OF POLITICAL AD)

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: ...Where women still have a right to choose.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: You can vote anyway you want. And no one will ever know.

LUSE: Not only is this ad using some very clear sign posting right there, but there's also this acceptance of the idea that a white woman specifically may have wildly different political views from her husband and may feel pressure to vote like him. What do you both make of that as we have this conversation about the term feminist and also as we are looking at how many white women actually did vote in the 2024 presidential election?

SUMMERS: Think that we are seeing the Democratic Party fail to really grapple with the reality of where white women are in this country, and I think that the ad forms a view of women as subservient to husbands still in the year 2024. It's a very interesting formation, and I think of, like, womanhood itself, and really speaks to this idea that people are really failing to grapple with the fact that a significant portion of married women in this country are conservative.

And it's also interesting that it sort of speaks to this idea that, like, women have only one place to choose left in this country, and it's the ballot box. When we know that women still have the right to vote, they still have the right to go to work, they still have the right to do so many different things. And it's sort of infantilizing as well as disempowering at the same time and doesn't really speak to the reality of many women in this country who don't live in rural suburbs or aren't married or have nontraditional marriages. You know, it sort of imagines that women are exclusively tied up with husbands and kids and what a nuclear family must look like. It's very fascinating.

GRADY: It's also a very old idea in this country, right? And one of the arguments against women suffrage, going back to the 19th century, was that giving women the right to vote would simply double the votes of married men because, of course, women were going to vote as their husbands told them to. And it's also really baked into the ways that Democrats like to think about conservative women. If we look back at 2016, there was this meme about the women surrounding Trump that they were probably there against their will. You remember, Melania, blink twice if you need help. There's this real reluctance on the part of a lot of mainstream Democrats to acknowledge that these women are exactly where they choose to be.

SUMMERS: We were talking earlier about the way that feminists or Democrats have talked about men from the various election cycles. And I think that this is a perfect example of this sort of idea that, like, many liberals see men as both an enemy and as, like, a constant unknown aggressor in our lives. And I certainly don't want to say that ads like this are the reason men have been radicalized, but it is interesting to maybe see it as a sort of self fulfilling prophecy, that this is the way that we imagine men, and this is the way that we speak to men in the public. I wonder if that is a successful talking point.

LUSE: Y'all have both raised some very good points right there. But, you know, I want to focus on the fact that out of the 10 states who had a referendum on abortion on the ballot, seven of them passed bills to protect it. And as it stands, Trump is also poised to be the president elect. What do you make of that?

SUMMERS: I just find that as Donald Trump gets reelected, and also as we see various Republicans rise to the top, that realistically speaking, there is a significant portion of this country that still believes in rights for women, that believes in rights for immigrants. I think that our differences are much smaller than the media and these politicians have made us out to be. And I hope and I pray that we can find ways to sort of bridge the, like, extremely deep divides that have been wedged between all of us.

LUSE: We are in a very different world now in 2024 than we were back in 2016, and we will see how feminism rises or shape shifts to greet this moment. But, Constance, Joan, I've learned so much here. Thank you both so much.

SUMMERS: Thank you.

GRADY: Thank you.

LUSE: And as a thank you, I'd like to teach you something by playing a game with you both. This week, we're talking about someone who broke the internet. Can you stick around for a tiny bit longer?

CONSTANCE GRADY AND JOAN SUMMERS: Absolutely.

LUSE: Oh, I love that. Jinx. All right, we'll be right back with a little game I like to call, But Did You Know? Stick around.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

LUSE: All right, all right. You are listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I am Brittany Luse, here with Vox's Constance Grady and Paper Magazine's Joan Summers. And we're going to play a little game I like to call But Did You Know? Here's how it works. I'm going to share a story that's been making headlines this week. And as I give you some background on the story, I'll also ask you trivia related to it. But don't worry. It's all multiple choice. The right answer is in there somewhere, and the first one to blurt out the right answer gets a point. Person with the most points wins, and their prize is bragging rights. Are y'all ready?

SUMMERS: Let's do it.

GRADY: Love to brag. Let's do it.

LUSE: (Laughter) All right. Oh, love to brag, Constance said. That's what we're here for. OK. Well, to start, music legend Quincy Jones passed away this week, but this game will not be a sad reflection on his life. We are celebrating Quincy Delight Jones - his actual middle name, Delight - with a game about his gift for gab. In 2018, Quincy Jones broke the internet in a no-holds-barred Vulture interview. And today, we're going to get into all the juicy gems he dropped.

OK. Question No. 1 - we know one of Quincy's most famed collaborators was Michael Jackson. And while we know Michael to be a prolific and extremely talented entertainer, Quincy knew him better. So for my first question, Quincy Jones compared Michael Jackson to which Italian historical figure - A, Leonardo da Vinci, B, Niccolo Machiavelli or, C, Michelangelo?

SUMMERS: Machiavelli.

GRADY: I'm going to go C, Michelangelo.

LUSE: All right. The answer is B...

(SOUNDBITE OF VICTORY TUNE)

LUSE: ...Niccolo Machiavelli.

GRADY: Ah.

LUSE: Specifically referring to Michael's greediness, when asked what we, the public, don't understand about Michael, Quincy said, I hate to get into this publicly, but Michael stole a lot of stuff. He stole a lot of songs. He was as Machiavellian as they come. All right. Question No. 2 - to touch back on the election for a second, which friend - and Quincy had many - which friend did Quincy Jones say should not run for president? Was it A, Oprah, B, the Rock or, C, Will Smith?

GRADY: I'm going to say B, the Rock, because I do remember the Rock-as-president discourse moment.

SUMMERS: I think it's A, Oprah.

LUSE: All right. Well, Joan, you were right again.

(SOUNDBITE OF VICTORY TUNE)

LUSE: (Laughter) The answer is A, Oprah.

SUMMERS: OK, great.

GRADY: Ah, man, kicking my butt.

LUSE: Quincy Jones said, I don't think she should run. If you haven't been governor of a state or the CEO of a company or a military general, you don't even know how to lead people. I don't know how I feel about that one.

(LAUGHTER)

LUSE: I think there may be other ways to gain leadership skills. The other thing also is that Oprah has famously been the CEO and founder of, like, several media companies. So...

GRADY: (Laughter).

LUSE: To recap the score, Joan, you are at two points. Constance, you're at zero points. And you know what? This week, I think, has really been embroiled in competition, and I'm going to take this competition to the next level. I know I said person with the most points wins. Well, this last question is going to be winner takes all.

GRADY: Ooh.

LUSE: Without further ado, the final question - in Quincy Jones' long career in music, he met many well-known artists and musicians. But there was one band in particular that he really, really did not like after first hearing their music. Which group was it - A, Earth, Wind & Fire, B, Steely Dan or, C, The Beatles?

SUMMERS: C, The Beatles.

GRADY: Earth, Wind & Fire.

LUSE: The answer, Joan, for the win...

(SOUNDBITE OF VICTORY TUNE)

LUSE: ...C, The Beatles. Quincy was not a fan of the group, stating that his first impression of them was that they were, quote, "the worst musicians in the world."

GRADY: (Laughter).

LUSE: All right. Hot take time - what artist or musician does everyone love that you are not moved by?

SUMMERS: (Laughter) Whoa.

GRADY: Everyone this summer was all about "Brat" summer, and I really loved the vibe and can appreciate Charli's skill. But I think I am too type A to fully give into what she's doing.

LUSE: I am a Charli fan, but I really appreciate your bravery.

GRADY: Thank you.

LUSE: That was very brave.

SUMMERS: Hear me out, everybody. Just, like, don't crucify me. I really, really, really struggle with, like, sort of glowing retrospectives on LCD Soundsystem.

LUSE: I can understand that. I can understand that.

GRADY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SUMMERS: I try so hard, but it is a struggle.

LUSE: My answer is Adele. I think Adele is...

GRADY: Oh.

LUSE: ...Gorgeous, funny.

GRADY: She has great vibes.

LUSE: When that hello from the other side song came out - "Rolling In The Deep," I felt nothing. It's not personal. I think she seems really cool. Like...

SUMMERS: No, you should say it's personal, Brittany. You should say that it's personal.

(LAUGHTER)

LUSE: It is personal. That's a good feminist thing for you to - I'm going to start beef. But Lordy, Lordy, here we are, the end of the game. That's it for But Did You Know? for this week. Congratulations to Joan on your win.

SUMMERS: Thank you.

GRADY: Congratulations, Joan.

LUSE: You did it. You pulled it off.

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LUSE: Constance, Joan, thank you both so much for joining me today. This was great.

SUMMERS: Thank you.

GRADY: Thank you. This was so fun.

LUSE: That was Vox's Constance Grady and Paper Magazine's Joan Summers.

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LUSE: This episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE was produced by...

BARTON GIRDWOOD, BYLINE: Barton Girdwood.

ALEXIS WILLIAMS, BYLINE: Alexis Williams.

LIAM MCBAIN, BYLINE: Liam McBain.

COREY ANTONIO ROSE, BYLINE: Corey Antonio Rose.

LUSE: Our executive producer is...

JASMINE ROMERO, BYLINE: Jasmine Romero.

LUSE: Our VP of programming is...

YOLANDA SANGWENI, BYLINE: Yolanda Sangweni.

LUSE: All right. That's all for this episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Brittany Luse. Talk soon.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.